I’ve maintained for some time now that a Sunday service does not validate or invalidate a church, and in principle, I still believe this.
Yet I can’t seem to shake the feeling that a church isn’t a church without a Sunday service, or at least a replacement service of a similar format at some other time. We still do our theological book groups on alternating Tuesdays and Film Night on alternating Saturdays, which have varying degrees of impact on my life.
It’s been a few months now since we stopped meeting on Sundays, and while we went to a few great churches on Sundays for a few weeks, we haven’t gone anywhere in a while. I’m thinking of going to a Presbyterian church (maybe U Pres) on Sunday.
I think we need a level of involvement and activity that’s higher than what we’re doing now, but not necessarily as high as we grew up with. Of course, there are many factors that give church attendance a different role in the life of faith. But I’m not sure exactly what those are right now.
Still figuring it out. Peace.
Justin,
I know the feeling. I came out of the Christian college scene thinking that the Sunday service was important. I still think it is for the sake of the great tradition of the church, however it is not vital to the existence of the Body. Over the past few years my family has been involved with a small “house church” group. (I have to put that in quotes because we were not part of a house church network, rather we simply tried our best to “share life together” in whatever that meant.) That was the hardest thing I’ve done. Actually being in one another’s lives and digging in and knowing them and then having to love them even though you think they are stupid… that’s tough. After a while you start to pick up on things that are clear signs of community. Your children pray for the other adults and children. The other children run to you as they run to their own parents - not because I’m the cool “uncle”, but because we love them and they know. Being Christ to one another is mind blowing. That lifestyle reaches far beyond the Sunday service. I say all that to mention that the small Body that we were apart of disbanded and we all went our separate ways. Some are still local. Some moved off.
My family took an open approach to the situation and let God move us into another Body. One that does have a mortgage, Sunday service and “Sunday School”. If anyone is reading this, you are realizing the hilarity of the situation. I went from “being the church” to “going to church”. We are still not understanding from the Father why we are apart of this Body, but it has been over 1 year and we are trying our best to help some understand that “going to Sunday service” is not the same as “being the Body of Christ”. We have made a realized impact on those around us with just their speech. That is, we hear less “going to church” these days. Since my wife and I have been formally trained in “youth ministry” we’ve been doing our best to help out. It has become a covert operation in some ways. LOL *sigh* We never thought that being apart of the Body in an institution setting was ever going to happen again, but it did. We are apart of the corporate Sunday service. I can’t believe it.
I will say one more thing regarding the level of involvement with an institutional church family… it is draining. I feel like with a more organic Body, we never had issues with schedules or planning. This is just the opposite now. Strange.
good stuff justin. we are thinking that through right now at our church (maybe more me personally). we meet in a similar way to how you described your community. i’m interested in the discussion.
Haha, that’s funny. I just posted something on this theme yesterday. That’s awesome that you guys are brave enough to experiment.
Hey, blessings on your journey.
I’ve found that I need some kind of corporate gathering, for a few reasons:
- I need the opportunity for relationships to be built, and especially ones that let me talk about deeper things than I find at work
- I get to practice the spiritual discipline of celebration
- I know that, while *I* am most comfortable being by myself, I also recognize that I have something to give to younger believers, so it’s not just about me and my own comfort. It’s also about what I can (or should) give.
I started a music ministry to senior facilities five years ago where we bring a full service to three different senior facilities. I have had a hard time going to other services because I have a hard time connecting with the worship service. I wasn’t raised in the traditional church and learned faith in a very grass roots way growing up.
I sometimes wonder if the reason that I am uncomfortable with it is that I work better presenting the worship service than receiving it. In music ministry, we are usually at the front rather than in the pews. I am not sure if that is the reason, but I know that there is something about Sunday services that isn’t reaching me. I connect with it during my ministry, but not as a spectator.
With that said, I also think that I have to push myself toward worship in different ways, rather than trying to mold worship in the way that I want it to be. On the weeks that we don’t have our services at the senior facilities (we do it once a month at three senior facilities, all in one day), my family and I attend different churches. This is problematic to my son (now 10) who is always the new kid at church, but it has opened us up to a lot of different methods and ways of doing church as well.
I still struggle with the whole “should I or shouldn’t I go to church” thing. Most likely, Jesus attended some form of corporate worship. He just didn’t let that become His only expression of faith.
I don’t always know how to metabolize worship, but I have a sense that so often there is no real experience of the flow of the Holy Spirit within the church service. I wonder if this is because too many people are just going through the motions.
The problem, I think, especially easy for small ecclesias to fall into, is making the “church” all things to all members (we’ll call it omni-church). There is nothing wrong with a sunday service, or “substitute”, but if it intended to be the totality of a persons spiritual expression it is set up for failure. The nice thing about our book groups is that their purpose is simple: to help us to grow spiritually/intellectually through the study and discussion of some great books. It is succeeding in that and my life is better because of it. It does not try to fulfill the need or purpose of “worship” (one thing our little group was lousy at was singing), prayer, sacred reading, ritual, child care, service, evangelism, etc. It also works really well with the “group consensus” method of leadership, something that did not work (in my opinion) with our sunday gathering. There is no way a small church can succeed if it tries to do everything a large institutional church does (whether a large institutional church should try to do all of those things on its own is also a valid question) and then some. Believing that we should do all of those things set us up for failure and guilt - it was unrealistic of us to think that we should be diverse and doubtful that we needed to be, we were way too hard on ourselves about evangelism, etc. In addition, if a small church is set up in a way that makes it difficult for its members to seek things from other places (such as singing, service, etc.), which it does if it says that it is an omni-church, it is set up for failure since people still need those things (of course, everyone’s different: not everyone likes to sing a lot, some people need more intellectual challenge than others, some need more ritual, etc.). The answer, perhaps, is to be happy being a quasi-church, knowing what the groups gift/need/desire is and going with that while not forgetting that we are a part of the Church, not the entirety of it.
Justin, come to your senses. Presbyterian??
Hi Dad,
If I recall correctly, the C of C has Presbyterian roots, right?
Justin,
Keep asking those questions (external as well as internal), and if you’re ever in my neck-of-the-woods, stop by for a visit and see how we’re trying to “be” the church.
Blessings, friend.
- Chris
More like considered and abandoned rather than roots. Both of the Campbells and Stone were ordained in the Presbyterian church, but when forced to choose between the creeds and the scriptures, they chose the scriptures and abondoned creeds (and the Presbyterians) as divisive. Perhaps you could elighten me as to what they might possibly have to offer other than the false doctrines of Calvinism.
Hi Dad,
I’m no fan of Calvinism either, but I don’t think that means the Presbyterian Church has nothing to offer. The C of C adopted plenty of the false doctrines of the Calvinists (though not the ones that are now known as Calvinism), if you want to give frowny faces to theological perspectives :).
Don’t have any great, wise answers for you, Justin.
But I think the tug of Sunday has something to do with a gravity well much deeper than culture or childhood memory. I think it has to do with a moment in a garden outside of a tomb … and a hope that transcends time … and a “thin time” associated with that moment and hope that is just as real as the “thin spaces” that are so often just inside our sphere of perception.
When we gather to worship and He serves at His table, we remember what and how and why and even when life is all about.
Maybe that’s what you feel, bro.
I am simply addicted to it.
Eventually, the tug goes away and life continues on as usual. I find my COC background looking stranger and stranger as time goes by. Then again, maybe you’ll come to your senses.
Justin,
What false doctrines of calvinism do you refer to?
[...] Justin echoes some of our own struggles with “not going to [...]
Hey Justin,
Thanks for your honest, compelling dialogue. I don’t think we do it all right at Ohana Project, we try but things get muddled especially with my addiction to really enjoying the church hype that I grew up with in SuperPentacostalLand. The one thing I think we are really getting though is our service at Northhaven Assisted Living. It is amazing to worship with these dear folks and I highly recommend you coming when you can! We will be there this Sunday at 7pm. When you hear these elders singing their hearts out and the tears in their eyes when they the scripture read it really does something to encourage the seeds of faith in your own life.
Colleen
being almost an atheist who goes regularly to a UU fellowship i recognize much said here but without all the caps.
i follow the essence and spirituality but shrink at the corporate construction.
where i go, we can be ourselves, and discuss with all the others what we think. i am not alone, yet still have a hard time with only the regularity. i work too much, am diseased enough and generally fatigued to not be able to “in-corporate” myself as much as i would like and end up rarely getting away from my own views.
C is not the only reason for faith, raison d’etre is along with recognition of existance. The rocks, fire, water and air [and aire] are just as important, depending on what we rational humans make of them.
i have enjoyed and been stimulated by this opportunity to view [and contribute] to your discussions.
peace,
michael